Authenticity of a Plant Medicine Experience
Part 2 of a 4 part conversation on plant medicine.
Questions presented are in bold italics.
Mark — Are you able to just explain a bit more re your suggestion that such drug induced highs are not ‘artificial’? I.e. the movie projector analogy doesn’t fly? Doesn’t the word hallucinogenic imply that the experiences (while seeming 100% real) are not really. I.e. if the physiology was in such a state to have them ‘naturally’ they would already be having them without requiring something ‘external’?
Bruce — Its likely people may feel psychedelics influence perception outside of what’s authentically within (natural, 100% real) because when folks take stronger plant medicines they generally receive a sensory input far removed from their normal wakened state. So the deduction is, I never felt this before, it must be the plant inserting foreign aspects into my consciousness.
Rather, more likely the persons native state is one of being unknowingly detached from their feeling centre and largely estranged from natures intelligence, has been since early childhood and so are genuinely incapable of connecting to what’s actually going on inside them. (Seems likely not only our society, but the population of the planet excepting a minority). They / we unknowingly repress the bodies innate intelligence / emotion / feelings every day – and are completely ignorant to this. Not so strange, been my path. Enter the naughty psychedelic which abruptly opens the doorway to these feelings and metaphorically pushes one through the door so folks have no choice but to face very directly what they’ve been repressing for years. But the plant isn’t tampering with the contents, it’s only showing what’s already inside waiting to be felt. In this light there’s nothing I can see that’s ‘artificial’ about a plant medicine experience.
Its worth noting that multiple things happen whilst journeying w plant medicines, of which the actual hallucination itself I would consider a relatively minor, almost but not quite a side effect often times (my experience only – id hazard a guess to assume others would disagree). The hallucination itself is not necessarily the delivery vehicle for the expansion, nor the mechanism by which wisdom or insight is offered. Not to say the hallucination can’t be the delivery vehicle – its just not often that way (in my experience), and certainly not limited to that mechanism. In this manner calling plant medicine a hallucinogen isn’t so accurate. It’s merely a facet of the experience which happens to get a-lot of publicity given the contrast it provides to non journey states. In context, those who use plant medicines will often refer to the plant as a Master Teacher, Ayahausca as Mother Ayahausca etc and do so with as great a reverence as you or I would have in regard to our teacher of choice of human form.
So yes experiences are 100% real. 0% artificial. No less real, no more real than any other experience. As discussed earlier, and put simply, medicine amplifies what is already within us as a magnifying glass amplifies writing on a page. The magnifying glass does not tamper with, taint, nor adjust the message of the text, simply a tool to assist vision. But… in terms of clarity presented in a journey, as said previously the complexity of impulse through which we engage the journey can (often for me) create ripples which distort what we see or absorb in journey. No different to how I find myself engaging with life in all other arenas, inc meditation. Its a facet of conditioned consciousness to distort my perception of reality by trying to deliver preferential circumstance, control outcome etc. Hence its not the medicine which id attribute to deviations into less clarity or grey areas in a journey. But even so, these grey areas aren’t really grey or less-than, they are still aspects of consciousness revealing themselves to find resolution. The catch with journeys as I see it, is because plant medicine amplifies what we see, it also amplifies the distortion.
To your comment:
“if the physiology was in such a state to have them ‘naturally’ they would already be having them without requiring something ‘external’?”
Exactly – they do happen ‘naturally’. Though I question the nature of the observation that would imply what is viewed on medicine as anything but natural. And is Aya really that external? Not to my mind. Yes I know what you mean. But to see it this way is to observe from a perspective where the medicine is seen as a foreign object, external in form, which we consume and then a reaction occurs. In this light because the substance was external the belief is the experience is also of external nature. Not so. On journey what is experienced is only ever what is present in ones own internal consciousness. Everything is entirely internal, nothing added. The external substance merely stimulates the observation gateway which allows us to see what is already within.
In day to day life, I often experience the same states I experience in a journey. Every so often something will pop up in my consciousness, just a simple noticing as I engage with life, and in this non journey state I’ll witness a particular facet of life and realise, oh my thats the precise state of reality I observed whilst mid journey. So in my experience the state occurs naturally in medicine journey, mediation, washing dishes and walking on the beach. My lived experience shows me I am the consciousness both enquiring of wisdom and the consciousness offering the wisdom to the enquirer in each of these modalities (journey, meditation, dishes). To my sense this means there is no room for there to be anything other than an entirely ‘natural’ experience. The only thing that changes is the scent and flavour of the bridge (connector / facilitator) I am engaging with at the time.
As a side note, Im (like everyone) able to replicate the essence of a journey, hallucinations and all, without taking any plant medicine. Its just a matter of connecting to the energy of that state. Maybe not relevant…
Mate I feel perhaps you’ve been conditioned as I was to see through a filter which is making it difficult for you to see what you’d see if you were to experience medicine first hand. Its really simple, plant medicine does not alter nor fabricate reality – not one tiny microscopic bit. It does not place anything into our reality, nor subtract anything from it. It only amplifies what is already present in our field so we can better see it.
Are you distinguishing between Aya experiences and other hallucinogens?
Good point, Ive been referring those Ive had exposure too, largely Aya, less so but inclusive of cactuses, pot etc. Ive experienced toe and salvia but not clear enough on their nature to comment. I think simplistically we could say there is a degree of intensity to each plant medicine. And, each human has a threshold for how much intensity they can withstand. Most plants are tolerable for most people who choose to journey. Some plants the intensity is off the deep end, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the frequency of some plants is indeed darker or predisposed to engendering a dark journey (Toe). Thus many medicine folk agree some plant medicine isn’t resonant with the broader human experience and likely induces trauma and psychosis. My take is those who can journey with such plants have the capacity to allow their consciousness be dislodged from the natural state we might associate as ‘being human’ and aren’t traumatised by what they experience. Or obviously have elevated consciousness which isn’t effected by the journey.
E.g. that as Aya is from a plant, it’s really just an input of a new vibration or resonance that promotes a more transcendental experience just as the input of a mantra or sound might do?
Yes sounds right. Aya, like mantra is new vibration which acts as a conduit for expansion.
One question I always have is that if ‘medical’ (hallucinogenic) plants etc can be good … why (as far as i know) haven’t any of the most enlightened, well known teachers throughout time – Shankara, Buddha, Jesus, Vasistha, Buddhist lamas etc etc, ever recommended them – in contrast they always recc. completely natural means/paths?
It’s not the conclusion drawn by these teachers opinions, more the rationale used to explain why they hold their view thats doesn’t fit with my understanding. The intensity of experience, people’s likely contraction in response, the inability to integrate what was experienced all points to medicine being a risky business which suggests teachers would well advise against it as generalised assessment for the wider population. But I’m not comfortable with this view being upheld as a broad one size fits all assessment.
My guess says there are many thousands of enlightened folk floating around the planet. Literally everywhere – you or I may well have had one as a neighbour and never realised it. However, you’ve selected those you know of which are popular in our culture and traditions we gravitate to… not necessarily the myriads of others we dont know of. So is this an accurate sample of what all enlightened folk believe? Maybe it is… I certainly dont know. But im curious what enlightened folk from medicine taking regions would say. Do they exist? They must. North American Indians, Central and South American medicine tribes, Australian indigenous dream time folk…. I reckon there’s a fairly good chance they’d have a history with local plant medicines. Maybe not in present incarnation (but just as likely too), not so much reason to use plant medicine if abiding at that frequency I’d imagine – or at least a different use-case. But in previous incarnations as they expanded through denser levels of awareness (essential stepping stones to subsequent lifetimes of greater expansion) id be very surprised if those Masters didn’t partake in plant medicine to assist in their journey – If it was in alignment with their path. It seems illogical to assume otherwise given the breadth and width of the human experience and how each of us have such unique paths and respective modalities that we respond to.
I understand from what you’ve said Maharishi (and others) was vocal about hallucinogens. To me such a narrative makes a lot of sense. However, how do I know its the complete all encompassing truth valid to the totality of all people and environments? I can’t see from his vantage point only he can do that. What type of audience was Maharishi talking to during this time and is that advice accurate for all people now? Has the climate which instigated that teaching changed? Given only a certain percentage of the population resonate with Maharishi (and the other teachers) its a valid point to query. There is also the valid point perhaps he was incorrect in his assessment. He’s human, as with all enlightened teachers and capable of error.
In Peru we see westerners generally speaking don’t journey well as the indigenous. The indigenous have a completely different attitude to the medicine, an innate understanding of how to navigate the journey in a healthy manner. Ive largely forgotten the details, but recall seeing how the nature of ego in the west has facets which aren’t as prevalent in tribal South America. Or at least they were trained to navigate the space better from young age. Maybe Maharishi’s advice speaks directly to us in the west who have certain egoic predispositions, but thats not the whole planet. And it’s not all westerners either.
Matt Kahn is also constantly advising folks go easy on plant medicine by the way. Especially ‘Hyahuasca’ as he jokes about it. He advises limited use because journeys are deep, and the deeper the experience the longer the time required to integrate. He feels folks aren’t integrating the journey. Like eating dinner requires space for digestion, but people are having meal, after meal, after meal with no time in between. But again he speaks in broad terms to hundreds of people at time, not to every individual this way. (Well, he did to me as well but you know what I mean)
Mark is there a bias here where you feel medicine is not natural? I was brought up that way. But from lived experience Ive seen plant medicine is completely natural because it gets me in touch with myself. Even now as one who knows the medicine is not for him. I don’t see the Aya journey as any different an expression of consciousness as the expression of life creating itself as I type on this keyboard. Its exactly the same mark, every fibre of my being and the waves of tingles shooting up my spine tell me so. This is an essential building block of what it means to be human and of spirit, integral to being a conscious living being.
In summary, If I change the general tone of the chapter, would you suggest the main thing is that …Like with most therapies or practises, it is the misuse or misguided application of things like Aya (or hallucenogens generally) that is responsible for the negative press.
Yes for sure. Also negative press from our society is largely misinformation and misunderstanding I’d say. The genuine negative press is due the nature of plant medicine which is its a deep dive in a short time = high intensity. humans respond best to gentleness. At least I do.
Many Shamans for example suggest that Aya is something that should only be used once or twice in a person’s lifetime to get important life insights
Again – that probably works for me personally. But…. Plant medicine shamans are entirely different to non-medicine shamans and they’d likely disagree. They are very different people and they see the world differently. That’s the key isn’t it. Everyone’s different and everyone’s optimum path reflects that difference. All my teachers agree on the big picture. But I’ve had each advise me very differently, even enlightened teachers have given me very conflicting advice on the specifics of how to walk my path. One is not wrong, just personal preference.
Benefits maybe received without subsequent dangers.
Yes, dependent on person
